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HK Protests as catalyst for global movements  


Justin Chan
Posts: 13
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Bunker Bob summarizes his thoughts on HK protests here.

The confluence of events: The China extradition bill (i.e. which is merely a trigger of broader and more long-standing issues), US-China trade war, Re-election timeline, as well as the fight for long-term global technology/military dominance, most definitely will set the world on a totally new track that is beneficial for humanity. The reasons are

  • it addresses the need for global powers to sustain growth without depending on unfair trade practices and manipulations from CCP; 
  • it curbs, or even kills, the belt and road initiatives (BRI) which I believe is also critical in preserving a healthy balance and prevents CCP to widen abuse from domestic to global scope;
  • being DDI, we need to make sure technological leadership is maintained by a proper set of ideologies. What would make you feel if a repressive regime becomes the global leader in any technology that you use every day? would you still want to use them? We can't accept that. Let's say you are superb in data science and all the hard skills, but your work is being used to make chinese citizens live like prisoners inside China. Do you still feel you deserve a great job or should you be put in jail instead? We should make sure technological power is held by the right kind of power and ideologies. 

Gen. Robert Spalding has provided a great analysis of China's technological strategy here.

What are your thoughts?

 

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Adam Tabriz, MD
(@adam-tabriz)
Joined: 1 year ago

Eminent Member
Posts: 23
Posted by: @justin

Bunker Bob summarizes his thoughts on HK protests here.

The confluence of events: The China extradition bill (i.e. which is merely a trigger of broader and more long-standing issues), US-China trade war, Re-election timeline, as well as the fight for long-term global technology/military dominance, most definitely will set the world on a totally new track that is beneficial for humanity. The reasons are

  • it addresses the need for global powers to sustain growth without depending on unfair trade practices and manipulations from CCP; 
  • it curbs, or even kills, the belt and road initiatives (BRI) which I believe is also critical in preserving a healthy balance and prevents CCP to widen abuse from domestic to global scope;
  • being DDI, we need to make sure technological leadership is maintained by a proper set of ideologies. What would make you feel if a repressive regime becomes the global leader in any technology that you use every day? would you still want to use them? We can't accept that. Let's say you are superb in data science and all the hard skills, but your work is being used to make chinese citizens live like prisoners inside China. Do you still feel you deserve a great job or should you be put in jail instead? We should make sure technological power is held by the right kind of power and ideologies. 

Gen. Robert Spalding has provided a great analysis of China's technological strategy here.

What are your thoughts?

 

Although my knowledge about internal affairs of China and Hong Kong is limited, however With my general sociopolitical understanding and the historical prospective, it is utterly obvious that tit for tat and power struggle is playing central role in the current turmoil. Hong Kong for China is like Venezuela for US, Ukraine for Russia. I personally call it war of intimidation. 

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Marina Alamanou
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Joined: 1 year ago

I have been watching lately a lot of videos of HG's protests and I have been admiring the people there because in comparison with all the other movements in the west they are the most new age, "young", fresh, modern, educated and "authentic" crowd I have ever seen. In fact, I thought that the "success" of HG protesters has to do a lot with the fact that HG is the result of a beautiful blend between west and east. Similar movements in Europe, with the exception of the yellow vest movement in France, have failed so far because they were "very" far right and sometimes very aggressive towards minorities and immigrants, failing to address the real problems of our society.

The umbrella movement 2.0 will more likely escalate to a global movement, when something unpredictable will happen and different new movements around the globe will reunite against "injustice and corruption". The problem we all have right now has nothing to do with west vs east, or democracy vs communism, but is more about corruption and injustice. So, a movement in order to expand globally will probably have to be independent from things like: Democracy vs communism, China vs US. Democracy in the west is not perfect either... Europeans have issues with EU and Americans have issues with their government also. Europeans are fighting with each other right now and Americans are highly polarised. And when people are fighting all the time with each other, is difficult for them to focus on the real problem: aristocracy, plutocracy and mainly corruption and injustice.   

And regarding technological supremacy, and the technological war between China and US, I guess the only logical solution to resolve any supremacy issues is to have a global government. This doesn’t mean that different borders, religions, languages and traditions stop to exist, but rather that 5G for example starts to be a “global issue” and not controlled exclusively by one government. I guess when it comes to technology we will need a “global government for technology”.  

The real problem here is adding this “new control centre for technology” on the top of our existing modern social pyramid, and since this a global issue, a global movement against corruption in general will eventually bring a global change. 

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Justin Chan
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Posts: 13
Posted by: @marina-alamanou

I have been watching lately a lot of videos of HG's protests and I have been admiring the people there because in comparison with all the other movements in the west they are the most new age, "young", fresh, modern, educated and "authentic" crowd I have ever seen. In fact, I thought that the "success" of HG protesters has to do a lot with the fact that HG is the result of a beautiful blend between west and east. Similar movements in Europe, with the exception of the yellow vest movement in France, have failed so far because they were "very" far right and sometimes very aggressive towards minorities and immigrants, failing to address the real problems of our society.

The umbrella movement 2.0 will more likely escalate to a global movement, when something unpredictable will happen and different new movements around the globe will reunite against "injustice and corruption". The problem we all have right now has nothing to do with west vs east, or democracy vs communism, but is more about corruption and injustice. So, a movement in order to expand globally will probably have to be independent from things like: Democracy vs communism, China vs US. Democracy in the west is not perfect either... Europeans have issues with EU and Americans have issues with their government also. Europeans are fighting with each other right now and Americans are highly polarised. And when people are fighting all the time with each other, is difficult for them to focus on the real problem: aristocracy, plutocracy and mainly corruption and injustice.   

And regarding technological supremacy, and the technological war between China and US, I guess the only logical solution to resolve any supremacy issues is to have a global government. This doesn’t mean that different borders, religions, languages and traditions stop to exist, but rather that 5G for example starts to be a “global issue” and not controlled exclusively by one government. I guess when it comes to technology we will need a “global government for technology”.  

The real problem here is adding this “new control centre for technology” on the top of our existing modern social pyramid, and since this a global issue, a global movement against corruption in general will eventually bring a global change. 

Thanks Marina. 

agree that the HK protests are very different from European ones. in a way I believe there are very good underground strategic advisors who led the HK movement - they would be reminded not to act stupidly and fall into the traps of CCP. and they would be completely decentralized in the leadership, so they could rapidly congregate and disappear almost as rapidly. 

About your mentioning of a global government of technology, I doubt if it is feasible though. the essence that makes a government able to govern is always based on some sorts of constraints on the part of individuals that it governs. before there is technology, individuals' constraints are their bodies and physical limits, and that's why they can be governed effectively using the custom department, tax authority, police force, etc... but technology is constantly redefining individuals' sets of contraints, and it simultaneously redefines effective sovereignty at the same time. It is just up to how long it takes for our concepts to change before a new form of controlling structure emerges. 

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Marina Alamanou
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Joined: 1 year ago

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Posts: 29

@justin

In fact, looking at them (HK movement) you can tell that they have very good and smart strategic advisors. I don't think we have advisors like this in Europe, but lately we have an increasing number of people that label themselves as independent (or indiferent sometimes) and are just waiting to see what is going to happen...  

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Michael Woronko
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Joined: 1 year ago

What I think is interesting to note through all of this is the methodology that's being adopted in the first place. Movements around the world are becoming more and more intricate, more oriented towards media coverage and a demonstrable sense of unwavering unity. Such has always been the case, of course, from Gandhi's Salt March in the 30's to the Anti War Protests in the 60's/70's, but it's also fascinating to see how dynamic of a role technology is playing in all of this, as a means to incite dialogue and organize more effectively than ever before.

Mounting global unrest aside, it's going to be more and more crucial for either side to grasp as much control over technology and information as possible, noting how media and misinformation plays into everything.

I encountered an article not long ago whereby the author expressed disbelief that the world is now focused on the HK movement despite the fact that the Yellowvest protests are still going; while they've diminished in size, can we say that there's influence over the media to downplay civil unrest? We know, with Occupy Wallstreet, that media coverage can fundamentally affect the efficacy of any such movement..

In the coming years and decades, I presume that it'll be something of a hot topic - how authorities employ force through technological means and how underground movements will counteract these measures in their own ways. 

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